Posts by Marvin Shilmer

7

Manipulation of child minds

by Marvin Shilmer in

today i read a comment on my blog about an image found in a 1958 watchtower publication titled from paradise lost to paradise regained.

it reminded me of what went through my mind back in those years.

watchtower meeting agendas were notoriously boring with the result of children (including teenagers) spending their time looking at pictures in great detail.

Marvin Shilmer

Yep, that little girl/puppy picture (also the foot-on-the-snake picture) have been indelibly imprinted on my mind.

Not too long ago at a medical round table I was approached by two mental health specialists and each recounted middle-age JW patients who brought up those very images. These providers said the patients were haunted by the illustrations, in particular the one with the little girl and puppy being killed at Armageddon. It is beyond paradoxical to tell a child God loves you, but even as a child God will kill you and your puppy (and throw your doll in an abyss!) because your parents aren't living right. It is mental abuse. That's what it is!

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

Marvin Shilmer

...if you don't like being called out for trying to have authority where you have none, then stop doing that.

wannaexit did not try to have authority where she/he has none. wannaexit did no more than share an opinion. Folks have them. Get used to folks sharing them. Otherwise you'll forever find yourself annoyed and attempting to 'call out' behavior that is perfectly normal and acceptable.

"If ...then stop doing that"? Oh dear! Is that an attempt to have authority where you have none?

7

Manipulation of child minds

by Marvin Shilmer in

today i read a comment on my blog about an image found in a 1958 watchtower publication titled from paradise lost to paradise regained.

it reminded me of what went through my mind back in those years.

watchtower meeting agendas were notoriously boring with the result of children (including teenagers) spending their time looking at pictures in great detail.

Marvin Shilmer

Today I read a comment on my blog about an image found in a 1958 Watchtower publication titled From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained. It reminded me of what went through my mind back in those years.

Watchtower meeting agendas were notoriously boring with the result of children (including teenagers) spending their time looking at pictures in great detail. Back in those days the kids were likely to get spanked for having anything other than a Watchtower publication in their hands to look at during a meeting. So what would they do? They'd exploit what they had in hand (a Watchtower publication) to relieve boredom.

Children would scrutinize those pictures in great detail, and Watchtower knew it. So what did those children find to look at in that 1958 book? An illustration of a little girl and puppy being killed by God at Armageddon.

Showing children horrific acts of violence carried out on innocent and defenseless victims has devastating effects on those children.

I remember looking at those pictures. I remember looking into the eyes of children who'd been staring at those pictures too.

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

Marvin Shilmer

Its a great thing to be a part of this community

Yes it is. Including the Fred Ziffels. If nothing else, entertainment abounds!

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

Marvin Shilmer

If I sent you a PM, would you publish it without my permission?

I might and I might not depending on multiple factors. As I've said before in this discussion, I've published many PMs sent to me.

When I send someone a personal letter or PM I've GIVEN something to that person. Read: IT IS THEIRS.

If I hold a preference of what should or should not be done with this gift then I should state that. Otherwise (OTHERWISE!!!) I've given something to another person based on trust of that person's moral and ethical standards to do with as they please because IT IS THEIRS; I GAVE IT to them. I gave it to them on trust based on THEIR moral and ethical standards. If, based on my standards, I later decide I misplaced trust then I cease trusting that person.

This is said from an ethical perspective and not a legal one, though these two perspectives often overlap.

As I said already, If you think _Morpheus betrayed you then my recommendation is that you don't trust him anymore. At this point all you're doing in this discussion is showing the south side of a north bound horse.

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

Marvin Shilmer

In my opinion, neither can you be trusted to arbitrate with any objectivity whatsoever anything relating to privacy in connection with the WTS.

I've read enough of your postings here to have this opinion: I don't care if you trust or do not trust me to arbitrate anything. And, if it matters at all, it is comical that you ascribe arbitration to what I've shared.

There are 2 issues, broadcasting my PM and making fun of my screen name.

I believe the PM at issue is in _Morpheus inbox. Not yours. If you did or did not want him to do something with what you gave to him then you should have told him so. Did you? If not, then he only did what he did with what was his to do with. If you think he betrayed you then my recommendation is that you don't trust him anymore.

Making fun of your screen name? Just a tab bit childish for you to give this the time of day. My pen name gets trashed all the time. What should I do? Cry about it as though that deserves my time?

I have defeated Morpheus in debates ...

When we declare victory for ourself in debates we find ourself in a pitiful place.

Morpheus has done this jeeringly and he himself has stated that his reasons are retaliatory.

And you've done less? Look in the mirror if you want to find a jeering retaliating individual.

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

Marvin Shilmer

Marvin, i totally understand your point, as i do everyone elses, but i feel zero regret.

And, at this point, I don't see any reason for you to feel regret.

I'll add that there is an argument that if someone entrusts something to us they are also entrusting us to do with it as we see fit unless told otherwise. Folks do this with personal letters all the time. A letter given to me by another is then my letter. Unless the sender states a condition of what can or cannot be done with that letter then ethically and morally I don't have an issue with acting responsibly with that letter based on my own ethical and moral standards, which is what the sender extended trusted over in the first place.

In this case it appears to me you acted responsible with what was given to you. Then the sender does, in my opinion, overreact as though you've broken a trust. Unless Fisherman asked that you not share his PM to you then I don't see an issue worth complaining about in this instance.

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

Marvin Shilmer

I've been sent PMs on occasion where questions are posed to me and I choose to answer them publicly. I've not included the sender's identity on these occasions because sometime folks have ideas of what they consider private that differ from my own. For some individuals (and Fisherman appears to be among these) it is considered private that they even asked a question or questions regardless of how mundane. I don't know why this is the case, but here we have an instance of an individual who's sole objection is that it is made known that they are the one who asked the rather innocuous questions that _Morpheus opted to answer publicly.

14

Jw's featured in the mags who later left?

by purrpurr in

i was just wondering if any of those jw's who got their story told or featured as "a fine example" in the publications, if they ever left the org later?

i mean i know regular jw's would probably never hear about it but i thought maybe you guys might?

Marvin Shilmer

Here's one:

What happened to — Rami Oved

63

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh

by WildeLover in

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-watchtower-imploding-10-reasons-why-the-end-could-be-nigh.

i dont know how to hyperlink the link above,.

it's a link to an article by cedars on the possibility of the wt imploding?.

Marvin Shilmer

The Watchtower organization has lots of old money in the form of massive assets, including huge cash reserves.

Lately it has concocted novel ways of multiplying its overall assets, including enormous amounts of new cash and new cash flow. In the real world we all live in, lots of capital makes a corporation stronger. Watchtower is becoming stronger financially.

Watchtower's leadership does not give one hoot about doctrine. It's new mode of strengthening itself is to alter how it rakes in financial assets. That's the new light! That's Watchtower's new religious movement.